Gomer: Continental South East Asia

Chapter V

Japheth’s eldest son is Gomer. He had three sons and they are the first three great grandsons of Noah listed in Genesis Ten.

Genesis 10:3

English Standard Version

The sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah.

We will discuss the first two sons Ashkenaz and Riphath with Gomer and look at the third son, Togarmah separately [refer Chapter VI Togarmah & the Koreas]. The following quotes are reprinted in large part, to show how the first suggestion of an identity – in this instance 435 years ago – can take hold and perpetuate an error. Also, to highlight the pitfalls of using words as proof, when they are either just interesting or completely misleading. These two points have almost irreparably cast the whole identity of nations teaching into discredit.

Ancient Civilisation:

In modern Turkey is an area which in New Testament times was called Galatia. The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus records that the people who were called Galatians or Gauls in his day (c. AD 93) were previously called Gomerites [this is disputable]. They migrated westward to what are now called France and Spain [the Galatians or Gauls did]. For many centuries France was called Gaul, after the descendants of Gomer [incorrect]. North-west Spain is called Galicia to this day. Some of the Gomerites migrated further to what is now called Wales. The Welsh historian, Davis… records that the Welsh language is called Gomeraeg (after their ancestor Gomer) [incorrect].’

The words Gaul and Gallic have a closer ethnic association with the words Gael[s] and Gaelic, though not necessarily an etymological one. The descendants of Gomer as Asian kin of Tiras and Madai, can not be the ancestors of the Welsh [refer Chapter III Tiras & the Amerindian and Chapter IV Central Asia – Madai & the Medes].

 Israel a History of:  

‘Herodotus and Plutarch associate Gomer, Japheth’s first son, with the peoples of Cimmeria, a region north of the Black Sea. Cimmeria is modern day Crimea. 

A certain group of Gomer’s descendants eventually moved westward, and the name was more than likely preserved in the names Germany and Cambria, or Wales.’

There is a link between the Welsh and the Cimmerians, just not with Gomer. Likewise, some have tried to equate Gomer with German. Trying to fit an Asian group into a European line does not work. Assumptions are easily made and ancient historians too readily relied upon.

A H Sayce pages 48-49 – emphasis mine & bold mine:

‘Jeremiah (51.27) makes it pretty clear in what part of the world we are to look for Ashkenaz… Ararat was the district which lay between the Araxes and the mountains south of Lake Van, while the Minni adjoined the kingdom of Ararat on the east. Ashkenaz accordingly must have been precisely where an inscription of Sargon places the people of the Asguza, and we may therefore feel but little hesitation in identifying the two together. The Gimirra, or Kimmerians, are placed in the same locality by certain cuneiform inscriptions which relate to the closing days of the Assyrian Empire. On Riphath no light has as yet been thrown by the decipherment of the records of the past…’

As per point number two in the introduction, Sayce has possibly located where these people once lived though not where they finally migrated.

Oxford Bible Church, Derek Walker – emphasis and bold mine:

‘Another participant in the end-time confederation of nations is ancient Gomer… Some prophecy teachers as well as the Rabbinical view identify Gomer as Germany, and the Jewish Talmud positively identify Gomer with the Germans.’ 

An Asian line of Japheth has been incorrectly matched to a European line of Shem. It would be helpful to learn exactly what the positive identification of Germany with Gomer is?

‘A closer examination, however, reveals that the Gomerites were the ancient Cimmerians, expelled in 700 BC from the southern steppes of Russia into the area we know today as Turkey. Gomer, scholars seem to almost universally agree, “refers to the Celtic Cimmerians of Crim-Tartary.” Gomer is well known to the ancient world as Gimarrai of north central Asia Minor [Cappadocia]. These people are also known as the Cimmerians. This seems to be the simplest, most obvious interpretation. Gomer is to be identified with the Cimmerians (the Cimarrai of the Assyrian inscriptions), located on the shores of the Black and Caspian Seas. Gomer is Gimarra is Cimmeria is Cappadocia – central Turkey. 

The Cimmerians are well known to secular historians. The Scythians chased them across the Caucasus mountains into Asia Minor (Turkey). They made their way through that land, destroyed the Phrygian kingdom in the 7th-8th century BC., and in the 5th century raided the kingdom of Lydia. They kept all of southern and western Asia in turmoil for a century and a half. 

Dr Young, citing the best of the most recent archaeological finds, says of Gomer [Cimmerians]: “They settled on the north of the Black Sea and then spread themselves westward and southward to the extremities of Europe.” Josephus said Gomer founded those whom the Greeks called the Galatians. This confirms the best identification of Gomer as Turkey.’

Confusion has arisen as ‘Gomer’ is superficially linked to the Gimarri or Cimmerians and later, with the Gauls. The Cimmerians were warlike and spread to the extremities of southwestern Europe, before migrating to the British Isles. They just weren’t the Gomerites descended from Japheth.

Possibly the first author to identify Gomer, the Cimmerians and Cimbri with the Welsh name for themselves Cymri or Cymry, was the English antiquarian William Camden in his work: Britannia, published in 1586. In his 1716 book Drych y Prif Oesoedd, Welsh antiquary Theophilus Evans, posited correctly that the Welsh were descended from the Cimmerians andincorrectly, from Gomer.

An identity is offered and whether correct or incorrect, it takes hold. Scholars and researchers assume the question is answered. A certain academic laziness ensues and 435 years later, an original error deleteriously affects the mosaic of the overall identity jig-saw puzzle.

Celtic linguists follow the etymology proposed by Johann Kaspar Zeuss in 1853, which derives Cymry from the Brythonic word Combrogos, meaning ‘fellow countryman’. The name Gomer – as in the pen-name of 19th century editor and author Joseph Harris – and its modern Welsh derivatives such as Gomeraeg – as an alternative name for the Welsh language – became popular for a time in Wales, but the Gomerian theory has long since been discredited as an outdated hypothesis with no historical or linguistic validity.

In rabbinic literature the kingdom of Ashkenaz was associated with the Scythian region, then later with the Slavic territories and from the Eleventh century, with Germany and northern Europe. Medieval Jews associated the term with the geographical area of the Rhineland and the Palatinate of Western Germany. The Jewish culture that developed in the area came to be called Ashkenazi. How the name of Ashkenaz came to be associated in the rabbinic literature with the Rhineland is a subject of speculation.

Associating a name from a grandson of Japheth with descendants from Shem is certainly going too muddy the waters. Ironically, we will learn later that the name Ashkenaz actually does have an association with the Jewish people – just not the one derived from Gomer [refer Chapter XXIX Esau: The Thirteenth Tribe].

Herman Hoeh comments – capitalisation his, emphasis & bold mine:

‘Look in your Bible for a map – if you have one in your Bible. There you will probably have pictured the descendants of Gomer migrating into Europe! Nothing could be further from the truth. They migrated in exactly the opposite direction! But do you know why many have assumed that Gomer may be in modern Europe today? Because the people of Northwest Europe journeyed through the land of Gomer before coming to Europe and were therefore called Kymmri! Prophecy says this very fact would occur! Notice what Israel is called while in captivity: “Gomer” (Hosea 1:3). The woman “Gomer” mentioned by the prophet had the same name which the children of Israel bore when coming into Europe! The Israelites were called Khumri or Cymmri, or Khmeri, or Cimmerians upon reaching northwest Europe. But where are the descendants of Gomer today?’

This is conjecture on Hoeh’s part, for there is a better case for the word Kymmri deriving from a king of Israel, called Omri [refer Chapter XXX Judah & Benjamin – the Regal Tribes]

‘Gomer originally settled northeast of Elam. From here they were driven to the Caucasus, between the Black and the Caspian Sea. Then they journeyed to Southeast Asia! Notice! The native name for Cambodia in Indo-China is Khmer – the land of Gomer! Read the BRITANNICA article on Cambodia. Associated with Gomer are the Chams and Annamese. Could this be only a coincidence? The Cambodians are related to the Siamese [Thailand], [and] Burmese [Myanmar]… In the ancient land of Gomer dwelled a small tribe called the Lullu (ENCYCLOPAEDIA BIBLICA). In extreme South China today dwell the Lulu, a non-Chinese race related to the people of Southeast Asia!’ 

The two eldest sons of Gomer, Ashkenaz and Riphath, migrated to mainland South East Asia and settled in what was historically called, Indochina. The name Indochina, was given to Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam, due to their being culturally and socially influenced by Indian [Indo] and Chinese [China] culture. The region comprises the nations of Myanmar [formerly Burma andthe Burmese], Thailand [formerly Siam and the Siamese], Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.

We will look at the island nations of South East Asia separately as they identify with a different son of Japheth.

The meaning of Gomer in Hebrew: ‘completion, complete’ or ‘perfect.’ From the verb meaning, ‘to complete, bring to an end’ or ‘come to an end’.

We read of Gomer in the Book of Jubilees 9:8-9. 

And the first portion came forth for Gomer to the east from the north side to the river Tina; and in the north there came forth for Magog all the inner portions of the north until it reaches to the sea of Me’at.

Gomer is described as being adjacent and southwards of Magog, when Japheth’s descendants made their original settlement in south eastern Europe and western Asia. 

Riphath is not mentioned outside Genesis Ten and 1 Chronicles One, though seems to be synonymous with Gomer. The meaning of his name is not straight forward. It can include: ‘fruit, grain, healers’ and possibly ‘crushers.’ The noun is ripa, some sort of beaten and dried grain or fruit. The verb is rapa, to heal.

Abarim Publications – emphasis & bold mine: 

‘… since we don’t know how to translate the word [Riphath] we also don’t know what to do with the name… To add to the confusion, in 1 Chronicles 1:6 this descendant of Gomer is called Diphath – the letters d and r look much alike. Maybe this discrepancy is due to a scribal error, and maybe the man simply had two names. Jones’ Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names refers to a root that doesn’t exist. Jones erroneously points at Job 26:11, where the verb (rapap), meaning to shake or tremble is used. And so Jones reads Crusher… NOBSE Study Bible Name List and BDB Theological Dictionary don’t even try to translate this name. Whatever Riphath may have been supposed to mean, the intent is lost for good. But to a Hebrew audience, the name Riphath may have sounded like Healers.’

Ashkenaz and Riphath are not obvious in their identification, though their names provide possible clues. Thailand is at the forefront for herbal remedies as well as cosmetic surgery, as Riphath possibly alludes in to heal

Flag of Vietnam

Gomer’s eldest son, Ashkenaz’s name is from the noun esh, ‘fire’, ke, ‘like’ or ‘as’ and the verb naza, ‘to sprinkle’.In Hebrew it means: ‘sprinkles like fire’ or ‘so fire is scattered’ with a connotation of a fire offering or a ritualistic sprinkling of blood or water and immediately reminds of the Vietnam war and the destructiveness of napalm.

The leading economy of the the five nations is Thailand, with the second highest population after Vietnam, and the second biggest area after Myanmar. Thailand is the 22nd largest economy in the world – 5th in East Asia – with a GDP of $543.55 billion in 2019.The Thai economy possesses relatively high quality infrastructure as well as pro-free enterprise and pro-investment policies. Thailand is very dependent on exports; accounting for about two-thirds of its GDP. Thailand has a substantial international tourism industry. While its agricultural sector only makes up about 10% of its economy, it employs nearly a full 30% of its workers.

The following export product groups represent the highest dollar value in Thai global shipments during 2020.

  1. Machinery including computers: US$37.7 billion
  2. Electrical machinery, equipment: $34.1 billion
  3. Vehicles: $24.1 billion
  4. Gems, precious metals: $18 billion
  5. Rubber, rubber articles: $15.5 billion
  6. Plastics, plastic articles: $11.9 billion
  7. Meat/seafood preparations: $6.6 billion
  8. Mineral fuels including oil: $6.1 billion
  9. Optical, technical, medical apparatus: $4.7 billion
  10. Fruits, nuts: $4.2 billion

Gems and precious metals was the fastest-growing among the top 10 export categories, up by 14.9% since 2019 propelled by higher international sales of gold. The leading decliner among Thailand’s top 10 export categories was mineral fuels including oil which fell -27.8% year over year.’

Thai Woman

In the Bible, Gomer is mentioned just once, aside from the genealogical lists; in a yet future, intimidating military alliance with several other nations. In Ezekiel 38:2-6, ESV we read:

2 “Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him 3 and say, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. 

4 And I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great host, all of them with buckler and shield, wielding swords. 

5 Persia, Cush, and Put are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer and all his hordes; Beth-togarmah from the uttermost parts of the north with all his hordes – many peoples are with you.

Notice Togarmah is differentiated from Gomer, as his descendants migrated to a distant land. Gomer is able to field a large army in this already massive military operation.

Countries comprising Continental SE Asia

CountryPopulation (2022)

With a combined population of nearly 250 million people, we can understand how this would be feasible. If we return briefly to Gomer and his first two sons names meanings, it is a rather frightening prospect when they are placed together:

‘Bring to an end’, ‘Crushers’, ‘fire is scattered’ and ‘sprinkling of blood’.

Ashkenaz is highlighted in a single verse in Jeremiah 51:27, NET:

“Raise up battle flags throughout the lands. Sound the trumpets calling the nations to do battle. Prepare the nations to do battle against Babylonia. Call for these kingdoms to attack her: Ararat, Minni, and Ashkenaz. Appoint a commander to lead the attack. Send horses against her like a swarm of locusts.

Footnote: Ararat, Minni, and Ashkenaz were three kingdoms located in the Lake Van-Lake Urmia region that are now parts of eastern Turkey and northwestern Iran. These kingdoms were conquered and made vassal states by the Medes in the early sixth century.

The regions of Ararat and Minni are described as kingdoms, placed on a similar footing with Ashkenaz. Actually, they are even listed before Ashkenaz. Thus they are not regions within another territory. The fact that the Bible states them, shows they are an identifiable family subdivision of Gomer as his additional sons, or perhaps the link to his eldest son Ashkenaz, means they are Gomer’s grandsons. As we read from A H Sayce, we know this was where these peoples were once located in modern Armenia, though they are not there now. If Ashkenaz and Riphath’s children are located in former Indo-China; how do these other two peoples relate to them?

It is not integral in understanding Gomer’s future role, where Ashkenaz and Riphath are located, though it is valuable in investigating for those people who may be represented by them today. With the introduction of Ararat and Minni, coupled with Diphath, the enigmatic double of Riphath, the mystery broadens. We have five Biblical identities associated with Gomer’s sons Ashkenaz and Riphath and we have unsurprisingly, five modern nations in continental Southeast Asia.

Previously, we addressed the original Ararat Mountains being the Himalayas and the mountain ranges in Anatolia – modern Turkey – being a later identification [refer Chapter I Noah Antecessor Nulla]. If the people of Ararat and Minni were once associated with this area in the past, then might they be near the Himalayas or in a mountainous region today?

The most mountainous nation in Southeast Asia is coincidentally, Myanmar – followed by Indonesia. The Hkakabo Razi is believed to be Myanmar’s highest mountain. The 19,295 foot tall mountain is also the highest mountain in Southeast Asia and is located in the northern Myanmar state of Kachin, in an outlying subrange of the Greater Himalayan mountain system adjacent to the tri-point border with India and China. 

Abarim Publications – bold mine:

‘Ararat is the name of a mountain range, which is famous for being the site of the first ship wreck in history: the stranding of the Ark of Noah (Genesis 8:4). Nowadays nobody knows for sure where the Ararat might be… according to Jones’ Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names the name Ararat comes from (1) the common Hebrew word (har) hill, mountain. And (2) the Hebrew verb (yarad) to go down, descend, march down. Jones’ Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names reads Mountain Of Descent, which is a wonderful interpretation if it didn’t ignore the final teth.

The following cluster of words seems more appropriate: (‘arar), to curse; (retet), trembling, panic, and (rata), wring out (Job 16:11), a word that, according to BDB Theological Dictionary may have to do with (yarat), precipitate, or be headlong, contrary (Numbers 22:32, “…because your way is contrary to me”. BDB Theological Dictionary suggest an alternative reading, “… thou hast precipitated the journey in front of me”.) As is the case with many names from the earliest chapters of Genesis, it’s impossible to retrieve the intended meaning of the name Ararat. We can’t even be sure in which language this name originated. But the way this name was later spelled, it seems to stylise the Noah story: A curse and a trembling; then a mountain and a future in a flash laid out.’

The definition of Ararat is insightful with its accurate description of Noah’s family trekking down a mountain of magnitude, to populate the Indus Valley after the Flood. 

Minni in Hebrew means: ‘my portion, partly’. A subtle link with ‘my portion’ to Madai’s ‘middle land’ and Japheth’s ‘enlarged’. From the preposition min, ‘from’, or the verb mana, ‘to count or reckon.’ The name Minni appears to have also originated from a language other than Hebrew.

In 1 Chronicles, Riphath is called Diphath. This is puzzling, as I do not believe it is an accident of a scribes quill. We learnt there was no clear definite meaning for Riphath. Diphath seems a shadow of the same name. As there appears to be three components to Ashkenaz, there seems to be a similar aspect with Riphath, of two parts. 

Book of Jasher 10:8-9

8 And the children of Gomer, according to their cities, were… by the river Franza, by the river Senah. 9 And the children of Rephath are the Bartonim, who dwell in the land of Bartonia by the river Ledah, which empties its waters in the great sea Gihon, that is, oceanus.

The River Mekong is 2,703 miles long; the worlds 12th longest river and 7th in Asia. It serves all five nations and strategically opens out to the South China Sea via Vietnam.

Online comment, One:

‘Interestingly, linguistic-wise, Cambodia and Vietnam share… the same language family. Integration of Cambodia into [the] Vietnam[ese] cultural and political sphere[s] also took place regularly in [an] historical context[;] [with the] conquest and cultural conversion often instigate[d] by the Vietnamese empire of the past[,] against the remnant of the old Khmer empire.’

Flag of Cambodia

Online comment, Two – emphasis & bold mine:

‘I’m often asked how similar Burmese is to the national languages of its Southeast Asian [neighbours], namely Thai, Lao and Khmer. And I’ve got to say: Burmese is quite different from the other three, whether it’s phonology, grammar, vocabulary, or writing.

In my perspective, one can divide Southeast Asia into two distinct sub-regions: continental Southeast Asia (Burma, Laos, Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam) and insular Southeast Asia (Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, Singapore). The national languages of Southeast Asia can similarly be divided along those same lines. It’s worth noting that all languages fall into a number of language families, which groups together languages that share a common ancestor, the proto-language of that family.

According to this conceptualization, Burmese is a clear outlier, as it is the only national language that’s part of the Sino-Tibetan language family, among the ranks of Chinese varieties and Tibetan. Thai and Lao are members of the Tai-Kadai language family. In fact, the two are quite similar, such that Thai and Lao are seen as languages in a Tai language ‘dialect continuum’ spanning from Thailand to southwest China. On the other hand, Khmer is part of the Mon-Khmer language family, linguistically related with neighboring Vietnamese.’

The principal lowland inhabitants of Laos are the Lao, who politically and culturally are the dominant group. They comprise the bulk of the Lao Loum; approximately 60% of the total population. The Lao are considered a branch of the Tai people, who began migrating southward from China in the first millennium CE. 

Cambodian Man

Thais tend to have high frequencies of Y-DNA Haplogroup O-M95 including its O-M88, O1b sub-clade, which also has been found with high frequency among both the Cham of Vietnam, the Kuy people in Laos and Cambodia, as well as the Jarai of Cambodia.

The genetic testing website 23andme groups Khmer people under the ‘Indonesian, Khmer, Thai & Myanmar’ reference population. This reference population contains people who have had recent ancestors from Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia. Notice Vietnam is excluded, plus the similarity with Malaysia and Indonesia is possibly due to overspill  from the migration of people of Ashkenaz, Riphath and the others to these two, non-Gomer descended nations.

Kim Wook in 2000, stated that genetically, Vietnamese people are more clustered with East Asians, of which his study analyzed DNA samples from Chinese, Japanese, Koreans and Mongolians, rather than with Southeast Asians. The same study analysed DNA samples of Indonesians, Filipinos and Thais included with the Vietnamese. The study observed that Vietnamese people were the only population in the study’s phylogenetic analysis that did not reflect a sizeable genetic difference between East Asian and Southeast Asian populations. In other words, they intriguingly bridge the genetic gap between these two regions.

Jung Jongsun in 2010, said that genetic structure analysis found significant admixture in ‘Vietnamese with unknown Southern original settlers’ and that Vietnamese people are located between Chinese and Cambodian people in the study’s genome map. 

We will return to the anomaly of the Vietnamese being different from their four related neighbours, whilst having a strong link with northeastern Asia [refer Chapter VI Togarmah & the Koreas].

Complete human mtDNA genome sequences from Vietnam and the phylogeography of Mainland Southeast Asia, multiple authors, 2018 – emphasis & bold mine:

‘Vietnam is an important crossroads within Mainland Southeast Asia (MSEA) and a gateway to Island Southeast Asia… However, comparatively few studies have been undertaken of the genetic diversity of Vietnamese populations. We sequenced the entire mtDNA genome from 609 unrelated Vietnamese individuals… 399 distinct sequences (haplotypes) belonging to 135 haplogroups were identified, all belonging to the two macro-haplogroups M and N… Overall, F1 is the predominant haplogroup (19.38%) followed by B4 (17.41%), M7 (9.36%), B5 (7.22%), and M71 (6.08%); these haplogroups are also common in other MSEA populations…**

To identify Vietnamese-specific lineages (clades or branches consisting of sequences only from Vietnam), we constructed phylogenetic trees relating 2742 entire mtDNA genome sequences (including 609 newly sequenced mitogenomes from the present study and 2133 previously reported sequences from MSEA). Several previously undescribed sub-branches of haplogroups A, B, C, D, F, M and N were identified… In total, 111 novel lineages unique to Vietnam were found in the dataset. The majority of these belong to haplogroups B, F and M (25, 26 and 29, respectively); these are major haplogroups of MSEA, accounting for 76.35% of the sequences.**

Haplogroup A occurs mostly in northern and eastern Asia at frequencies from 5 to 10%, and is one of five founder haplogroups among native Americans. Overall, haplogroup A is most widespread in AA groups from Vietnam and Thailand… Within MSEA, haplogroup A is at highest frequency in northern Vietnam and northwestern Thailand.

Haplogroup B is one of the most common haplogroups in northern and eastern Asia, with three major subhaplogroups B4, B5 and B6. With the 164 Vietnamese mtDNA sequences belonging to haplogroup B, several new sub-clusters within B4, B5, and B6a are identified… B4 is the second most frequent haplogroup in Vietnam and is widespread across MSEA, especially northern Vietnam, northern Thailand, and Taiwan. However, B4 subhaplogroups that are relatively frequent in Taiwan… are absent in the Vietnamese AN groups… while haplogroup B4 has the highest frequency in northern Vietnam and Taiwan, there is very little overlap of B4 subhaplogroups between Vietnam and Taiwan… Overall, there is remarkably little sharing of sequences between groups from different language families or countries… haplogroup B5 reaches the highest frequency in northeastern Thailand. Haplogroup B6a is distributed mostly in northern Thailand.

Haplogroup C is widespread across East Asia and is one of the five founder haplogroups among native American populations… Haplogroup C5 is represented by a single haplotype belonging to subhaplogroup C5d*… and is present only in Vietnamese HM groups, while C4 is distributed in Vietnamese, Thai, and S. Chinese groups… Haplogroup F is one of the most common haplogroups throughout Asia… Haplogroup F1a is at high frequency in northern Vietnam and northeastern Thailand… Haplogroup G is one of the most common mtDNA haplogroups among Japanese, Ainu, Mongol and Tibetan populations, and is also found at a lower frequency across East Asia, Central Asia and MSEA… The G2a1* sequence is from a TK group… Among MSEA populations, haplogroup G reaches the highest frequency in northern Vietnam. 

M is a macro-haplogroup found at high frequency all across Asia (including MSEA)… Haplogroup M7 reaches the highest frequency in eastern Thailand and northern Taiwan… Haplogroup M71 is found in Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar and Vietnam… haplogroup M71 has the highest frequency in central Vietnam… N9a, one of three major sub-clades of haplogroup N, is found in East Asia, Southeast Asia and Central Asia… Haplogroup N9a reaches the highest frequency in southern peninsular Malaysia…’

The mtDNA macro-haplogroup M, is indicative of all Oriental Asians. What is significant, is that M71 bonds the five continental southeast Asian nations, revealing  a common ancestry and a shared status as brothers.

Large-scale mitochondrial DNA analysis in Southeast Asia reveals evolutionary effects of cultural isolation in the multi-ethnic population of Myanmar, multiple authors, 2014 – emphasis & bold mine: 

‘… we sequenced the mtDNA control region of 327 unrelated donors and the complete mitochondrial genome of 44 selected individuals… 

Population genetic analyses of Burmese control region sequences combined with population data from neighboring countries revealed that the Myanmar haplogroup distribution showed a typical Southeast Asian pattern, but also Northeast Asian and Indian influences. Analyzing mtDNA data from Myanmar is of great genetic interest, because in spite of accumulating knowledge in recent years the resolution of the mitochondrial haplogroup phylogeny in SEA, especially in macrohaplogroup M, is still very low compared to West-Eurasian haplogroups… 

Myanmar is subdivided into more than 100 ethnic groups amongst them the Bamar represent 68% of the population. Other important minorities are Shan (10%), Karen (7%), Arakanese (4%), Chinese (3%) and the ethno-linguistically related Mon and Khmer (2% each).  F1a1a** with 15.9% of all sequences was by far the most frequent haplogroup in this study, followed by C4b1 (7.0%), B6 (6.4%) and A4 (5.2%). R9b1a1a, D4 and G2b1a reached 4.6% each. The 78 individuals actually belonging to M split into 50 different haplogroups, 29 of them with only a single representative. The most common haplogroup in M was M21a (1.8%)… 

The Myanmar sample was typical for Southeast Asian populations with a high percentage of R9’F and B lineages as well as a variety of M haplogroups. The minor contribution of N lineages (without A, B and R9’F) to the gene pool also turned out to be characteristic for Southeast Asia. Noticeable was a relatively high percentage of A and C lineages in Myanmar compared to the neighboring countries…’

A distinct geographic pattern appeared in the multi-dimensional scaling plot of pairwise Fst-values: The Myanmar sample fitted very well within the Southeast Asian cluster, the Central Asian populations formed a second cluster, the Korean sample represented East Asia, the Afghanistan population was representative for South Asia and Russia symbolized Western Eurasia. The main haplogroup distributions are displayed as pie charts. The size of the pie diagrams corresponds to sample size. The proportion of N-lineages (without A,B and R9’F) increases from very low percentages in Southeast and East Asia over 50% in Central Asia to more than 75% in Afghanistan and 100% in the sample of Russian origin. The proportion of the American founding haplogroups A, B, C and D displayed an interesting pattern: from nonexistent in Russians it increased to more than 50% in East Asian Korea.

The mitochondrial haplogroup distribution in Myanmar showed a typical Southeast Asian pattern, confirming earlier findings but also adding new information: the population sample of Myanmar displayed quite a few parallels to North and Northeast Asian and also to South Asian populations. No traces of European or African influence to the maternal gene pool of Myanmar were detected. The description and dating of eight new mitochondrial haplogroups and the detection of three further basal M lineages shed more light on the population history of Southeast Asia.’

An in-depth analysis of the mitochondrial phylogenetic landscape of Cambodia, multiple authors, 2021 – emphasis & bold mine:

‘A total of 224 unique haplotypes were identified, which were mostly classified under haplogroups B5a1, F1a1, or categorized as newly defined basal haplogroups or basal sub-branches of R, N and M clades. The mtDNA data presented here increases the phylogenetic resolution in Cambodia significantly, thereby highlighting the need for an update of the current human mtDNA phylogeny. As a result of the historic expansion of the Khmer Empire in the twelfth century, the majority (96%) of Cambodia’s present-day population belongs to Khmer…

Haplogroup distribution in different populations/data sets. (A) Frequency plot of macrohaplogroups in different populations, including 1000 Genome Project data. The super populations are given for African ancestry, European ancestry, South Asian ancestry and admixed American ancestry. East Asia is reported individually as Vietnam (KHV = Kinh in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam), China (CDX = Chinese Dai in Xishuangbanna, CHB = Han Chinese in Beijing, CHS = Southern Han Chinese) and Japan (JPT = Japanese in Tokyo). 

(B) Haplogroup distribution by publication… Bodner (Laos), Duong (mostly Vietnam), Kutanan (mostly Thailand), Summerer (Myanmar), Zhang (Cambodia). “This study” indicates the present work’s data set. Macrohaplogroups represent M (yellow), N (green) and R (blue) groups.’

An article, Mitochondrial DNA control region variation in a population sample from Thailand, multiple authors, 2020, found that, ‘the [mtDNA] haplogroup composition [for Thailand] is comparable with other Southeast Asia population samples…’ The most frequent haplogroups being B5a [9.4%], F1a1a [8.9%] and M [8.9%].**

It depends how one chooses to group these five peoples, whether linguistically, historically, geographically or biblically. The Vietnamese are somewhat separated from the others genetically. Linguistically and historically, they are grouped with Cambodia, Laos is linked with Thailand linguistically and historically. Myanmar is separated from the others linguistically. Thailand has a thriving economy that sets them apart. Historically, Myanmar and Thailand share a common heritage, as both were British colonies; whereas Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos were French colonies. 

Biblically, Riphath and Diphath are not specifically mentioned in scripture, whereas Ashkenaz is, with Ararat and Minni. From this, one could logically expect the latter three to equate to the three larger nations and the former two to the two smaller nations. Thus, Riphath and Diphath are Cambodia and Laos. Ararat, Minni and Ashkenaz are in order, Myanmar, Thailand and Vietnam. Myanmar the mountainous nation, Thailand located in the middle, with a significant portion of blessings and Vietnam the nation with a history of war, fire and blood.

The final determining factor is their genetic variance or similarity from their respective Y-DNA Haplogroups. All five nations share O-M122, or O2a1 [formerly O3] as their predominant Haplogroup. 

In lesser quantities, O1a [formerly O1] and O1b [formerly O2] are found with the other indicative East and South East Asian Haplogroups of C and D. Both Cambodia and Laos have a strikingly similar sequence of O2, O1a, O1b, C, D and K. Each also have traces of Haplogroups associated with South Asia of J2, R1a and H. Thailand shows a similar sequence and is the closet to Cambodia and Laos. Myanmar has a higher percentage of Haplogroup D than any of the others; whilst Vietnam has Haplogroup Q, which is the main Haplogroup for the Amerindian [refer Chapter III Tiras & the Amerindian].

Myanmar:  O2 – D – O1b – O1a – C

Thailand:   O2 – [O1b] – O1a – C – D 

Vietnam:    O2 – O1b – Q – O1a – C – D – N – J2

The distinctiveness of the other three nations suggests they are not offspring of Ashkenaz or derived from the Vietnamese but lean heavily towards them being the direct lineage of Gomer. This would support their separate listed status in the Book of Jeremiah. The three peoples were obviously powerful enough combined to cause a threat and this is supported by Myanmar, Thailand and Vietnam having sizeable populations today, with the potential to capably wage a future military campaign. 

Thailand: O2a1 [35.3%] – O1b [?%] – O1a [8.8%] – C [2.9%] – D1 [2.9%] 

Vietnam: O2a1 [40%] – O1b [32.9%] – Q [7.1%] – O1a [5.7%] – C [4.3%]

– D1 [2.9%] – N [2.9%] – J2 [2.9%]

Vietnam’s Haplogroups and the percentages for each, plus partially for Thailand. 

                                  C        O       K       D       Q

NA Amerindian     6                                      77

Kazakhstan           40        8      10                  2

Vietnam                   4      79                  3        7

Comparing Vietnam, with a representative from the preceding chapters of Kazakhstan from Madai and the North American Indian from Tiras, highlights two points. First, the very clear marker Haplogroups for Japheth’s descendants are represented by C, D, K, O and Q. Two, even so, it can be seen already just how wide the variation is between related siblings. Each of the three so far, Tiras, Madai and Gomer though having groups in common, each demonstrate the individuality each possesses in having a prime Haplogroup different from one another. In contrast, we will discover in the next few chapters that the severity of the divide reduces considerably with Japheth’s remaining four sons. One could say, it is a case of some brothers being more like each other than others. 

All so far, carry Y-DNA Haplogroup Q, which was passed from Japheth via F and its mutations of K, P and then Q. Yet, it is the sons of Tiras who have Q as their principle Haplogroup. All carry Haplogroup C, again passed from Japheth; yet it is the most undiluted sons of Madai in Kazakhstan, where group C is dominant. Though the number one principle Haplogroup for Japheth’s sons overall is O, it is devoid in the sons of Tiras. For the descendants of Gomer, Haplogroup O and specifically O2, is the prime marker.

All five nations on the southeast Asian mainland, include the core Y-DNA Haplogroups of O, C and D. The primary significance, is that these five nations ultimately comprise the collective body of Gomer’s two eldest sons Ashkenaz and Riphath, with the additional offspring from Diphath, Ararat and Minni. In the next chapter, we will investigate Gomer’s intriguing third and youngest son, Togarmah.

“These are the people I am pleased with: those who are not proud or stubborn and who fear my word.”

Isaiah 66:2 New Century Version

“I would remind you to notice where the claim of consensus is invoked. Consensus is invoked only in situations where the science is not solid enough. Nobody says the consensus of scientists agrees that E=mc2. Nobody says the consensus is that the sun is 93 million miles away. It would never occur to anyone to speak that way.” 

Michael Crichton

© Orion Gold 2020 – All rights reserved. Permission to copy, use or distribute, if acknowledgement of the original authorship is attributed to orion-gold.com

7 thoughts on “Gomer: Continental South East Asia

  1. The last few posts are great quality. Thank you for another excellent article and for sharing this with all of us. It is cool and helpful information. You actually know what you are talking about! You’re very intelligent. A lot of what you articulate is surprisingly legitimate, which makes me wonder why I had not looked at this in this vein previously. This particular piece really did switch the light on for me personally. It was outstanding. I really like your writing very much!

  2. Ben

    You invent theories just as well as the other inventive theoreticians.
    First identify Gog and Magog.
    Clues exist in the Hebrew.
    Ezekiel contains misspelled words, possibly a restored from memory text post Babylon.
    Agog or Agag is Saudi Arabia.
    In Hebrew: Ba Ma Gog = House of Agog
    Beyt as a prefix can mean House in older writing.
    Exodus identifies Agog as the rulership of the Amalekites, which fought against Moses near Midian which is today Saudi Arabia.
    All of the other identifications depend on identifying Gog/House of Gog first.

    1. Thank you for your comment Ben.

      Gog is associated with Magog. No inventing theories there. Refer Chapter X China: Magog, Tubal & Meshech.

      Agag is associated with Amalek. No inventive theorising there. Refer Chapter XXIX Esau: The Thirteenth Tribe.

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